tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post116256989612387382..comments2023-10-10T06:51:06.526-04:00Comments on Ryan's Take: John DePetro vs. Grace RossRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04523572927796479670noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162721392114483142006-11-05T05:09:00.000-05:002006-11-05T05:09:00.000-05:00I'd go with b, the station owners think it's in th...I'd go with b, the station owners think it's in their interests to have more brainwashed conservatives to give them their tax breaks and not question the status quo, and if that makes it easier to sell them products they don't need, so much the better.<BR/><BR/>A friend of mine works on a ship and a new guy came on board, completely apolitical. After a few months cooped up in the engine room forced to listen to Michael Savage ranting 24/7, the new guy would buy whatever Savage told him to or do whatever Savage wanted, short of going to Iraq himself of course. It was scary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162613461470325242006-11-03T23:11:00.000-05:002006-11-03T23:11:00.000-05:00even though it would be possible to use lesbian as...even though it would be possible to use lesbian as just a simple descriptive term, I guess.<BR/><BR/>Not on RKO, it wouldn't be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162608768023536132006-11-03T21:52:00.000-05:002006-11-03T21:52:00.000-05:00the radio are public airwavesExcellent point, and ...the radio are public airwaves<BR/><BR/>Excellent point, and too often forgotten.<BR/><BR/>if he had just said that Grace Ross was a lesbian, that would have been fine<BR/><BR/>Ehhh. If he had just said Grace Ross is a lesbian, he wouldn't have been fired. His intent still would have been the same, to sneer at her with his troglodyte listeners.<BR/><BR/>Grace is out, sure, but it's not Natalie Jacobsen asking her a question about her in-laws while sitting on her couch. <BR/><BR/>Mentioning that she's a lesbian would be fine if it's relevant in any way, to the campaign or the issue that's being discussed, but he was talking about the debate and how Grace felt excluded, not about how she answered questions with "Well, as a lesbian..." (which she didn't that I saw). <BR/><BR/>If DePetro isn't calling Healey "the woman" apropos of nothing, or Patrick "the black guy" or Mihos "the het white guy," I don't really see the point of "the lesbian" except to gay bash, considering the source. It wouldn't be a fireable offense but it's still more asshatty than fine. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, who uses "lesbian" anymore? Seriously. heheAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162603824657706682006-11-03T20:30:00.000-05:002006-11-03T20:30:00.000-05:00No, I totally understand what you're saying, Ryan....No, I totally understand what you're saying, Ryan. My comments were responding to where eeka was saying it might be possible to use the phrase "fat lesbian" in a descriptive, not-necessarily- derogatory way under certain circumstances. I know context is everything, but I think it's hard to envision a context where describing anyone like that would really be appropriate or non derogatory in intent, except in the context of a community that chose to refer to themselves in those terms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162600141982686932006-11-03T19:29:00.000-05:002006-11-03T19:29:00.000-05:00Aaron, I agree with you to some extent that it was...Aaron, I agree with you to some extent that it was WRKO's perogative. As I said in my blog, they made the right choice. That implies that it was actually a choice - the police didn't come and get him and carry him away, he got fired. <BR/><BR/>That said, the radio are public airwaves. The very fact that the airwaves <I>don't belong to the radio stations</I> means that we - as a public - get to have some say on what is and is not okay to put on the airwaves. If people in general want certain restrictions on how speech is said - but not actually speech itself - then that's our perogative. It's perfectly okay for us to limit swears, slurs, and things of that like. In fact, it need not limit free speech - DePetro could have still talked about how Grace Ross was a lesbian, even in a way that it somehow disqualified her or was a bad thing. I'd disagree with it and still probably be fuming, but it probably wouldn't have been a firable offense - the fact that he slurred her (using a gay slur for the second time this year, showing a pattern) was a firable offense. <BR/><BR/>Eeka, <BR/><BR/>I absolutely agree. Context is everything. As someone who was listening in, I can attest to the fact that he meant it in a hurtful way. Then, after he faux-apologized, he went on to describe that he was actually right in his description - as if it was somehow appropriate to call someone a "big fat lesbian" (in any context on public airwaves). <BR/><BR/>Anon at 4:52, please refer to my comments for Eeka. <BR/><BR/>Stunned, if he had just said that Grace Ross was a lesbian, that would have been fine. It was the "fat" and the context in which he said it in that made it not okay. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, thanks all for the comments! It's an interesting discussion. I'm curious to see just who WRKO will replace DePetro with - if they're serious about their "zero tolerance" they'll hire someone who... oh, I don't know... actually <B>tolerates</B> others. Imagine that!Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523572927796479670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162591834245341892006-11-03T17:10:00.000-05:002006-11-03T17:10:00.000-05:00In short, LOL, there's a difference between being ...In short, LOL, there's a difference between being an in-group member and part of the out-group imo. If a slur's directed at a certain group, it takes on a different level of hostility when it's coming from someone outside the group.<BR/><BR/>I don't think it's appropriate to call other women derogatory names like "slut" ot "bitch," (I might, however, make an occasional exception when it comes to certain candidates who have pushed the bounds of decency beyond all endurance), for example, but if a girl calls me a bitch, it wouldn't be that big a deal to me. If a guy said that to me, that would be a huge deal and create a big problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162591105051802272006-11-03T16:58:00.000-05:002006-11-03T16:58:00.000-05:00I dunno, I think "fat" is pretty much always used ...I dunno, I think "fat" is pretty much always used as a derogatory term. I know there's fat tolerance and fat acceptance, but those are people trying to reclaim the term and applying it to themselves, not to anyone else. (In fact, I just googled fat acceptance to verify that, and I found people who call themselves fat reassuring other women they're not at all fat. :))<BR/><BR/>It's hard to think of a context where someone would be called fat, or described as fat, by someone else, especially a stranger, and it wouldn't be meant in at least a somewhat derogatory way. <BR/><BR/> And when you throw "lesbian" in there, it just makes it that much more clear, even though it would be possible to use lesbian as just a simple descriptive term, I guess.<BR/><BR/>Maybe if DePetro were a lesbian himself or was open about his own weight problem he could try and claim it's a term of endearment of something, but..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162590723139007412006-11-03T16:52:00.000-05:002006-11-03T16:52:00.000-05:00How is "lesbian" a "gay slur?" Doesn't that mean ...How is "lesbian" a "gay slur?" Doesn't that mean all the GLBT groups should change their names, too?<BR/><BR/>Wait--Grace Ross calls herself a "lesbian." Is she slurring herself.<BR/><BR/>When discussing the issue of sexuality between women, I eschew the offensive word "lesbian" for the accurate yet inoffensive alternative...er, what was that word again?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162589922788998732006-11-03T16:38:00.000-05:002006-11-03T16:38:00.000-05:00dAwesome.What's annoying the crap out of me is tha...dAwesome.<BR/><BR/>What's annoying the crap out of me is that several blogs are talking about the incident without any context, either arguing that "fat lesbian" is derogatory (when it isn't necessarily...) or arguing that it's just a descriptor.<BR/><BR/>Yes, "fat lesbian" is accurate. It might be basically appropriate in a blunt description of how the folks look standing up there debating, but could be really inappropriate if it were "yeah, and then that fat lesbian has the nerve to say..."<BR/><BR/>Context is everything, yanno?eekahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08263491847297435157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162589215790006652006-11-03T16:26:00.000-05:002006-11-03T16:26:00.000-05:00As is always the case when something like this hap...As is always the case when something like this happens, it raises what I think are rather difficult issues surrounding free speech. <BR/><BR/>Gay slurs are reprehensible, but is it really not OK to use them on the airwaves? It depends on how you define "OK." Is it wrong by any modern moral standard? Yes, of course. But it is unconstitutional? I'm not a legal scholar, but I don't think so. WRKO management made a decision based on what product they want to be serving, so to speak, and they decided that they don;t want this to part of their product. But had they decided to keep him it would have been their prerogative and their right to do so. They made the right choice in my opinion, but the notion that certain opinions, even vile ones like DePetro's shouldn't have a place on the airwaves or anywhere else just doesn't sit right with me.William https://www.blogger.com/profile/15201560647358463662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162571271181049322006-11-03T11:27:00.000-05:002006-11-03T11:27:00.000-05:00Schadenfruede, anyone?Schadenfruede, anyone?Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523572927796479670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15133926.post-1162570056254654972006-11-03T11:07:00.000-05:002006-11-03T11:07:00.000-05:00Boston.com is reporting that he's been canned.Boston.com is reporting that he's been canned.William https://www.blogger.com/profile/15201560647358463662noreply@blogger.com